In a recent discussion in a highschoolscience Google group on under-representation of underprivileged castes in the civil society institutions (initiated by an article written by Jean Dreze), I posted a few comments.
1. Over the years, I have always found it amusing and at the same time agonising how we non-Dalits discuss the issue of reservation.
First, it is always as if we have a choice in the matter. In some ways, it is justified because we keep on finding ways to counter reservation (by greater privatisation in education sector, for instance). But the fact is that the issue is not something that we can decide. I am not so sure about the OBC, but the Dalit context is and will be determined by Dalits. We happen to control the apparent discourse on it - for now. We were able to keep reservations effectively non-operative (except in states like TN) until about fifteen years ago when the courts started intervening in the matter.
Second, in spite of enough data available (now even on Wiki) on how reservation has changed the percentages of Dalits (and OBCs) in different category of professions (in Govt. jobs - albeit at a slow rate), we keep on wondering if reservation has helped at all. Enlightened commentaries do not indulge in the more widely prevalent 'in my uncle's office that fellow owning so many houses in the city is taking advantage of reservation' kind of dialogue, but we carry doubts in the deepest corners of our minds. This in spite of the new provisions to weed out the creamy layer.
And the issue of the poor among the forward caste - Many of them are willing to take up menial jobs far away from their native place, but are they willing to take up the same jobs as what Dalits do in their own villages - NO and that is why reservation for poor among the forward caste is less justified than for Dalits. Nonetheless, there should be reservation for them.
This is not to undermine the serious issues that we should worry about - the gender issues, the extremely neglected groups like nomadic communities, etc.
Finally because of the essentially feudal nature of our society, we remain casteist by default with unwritten reservation for forward castes (taking care of our kin and friends is a mandatory value that we learn from childhood and practice all our lives). Anyone with an open mind can see the effectively large scale reservation for forward castes that is operative in our institutions.
It is useful to compare the situation with African Americans in USA. No average white believes that the average black may be equal to them - there is no quota and yet there is a wide acceptance of the idea that the world has to change. We are so deeply feudal that in spite of quotas and constant talk about the issue, we have kept ourselves an exclusive structure. As a friend used to say - there is one phrase that describes us - khandani badtameezi.
2. comment by Anshumala:
My response: If any one is seriously interested in the sociology of caste issues, is this the way to pursue it? Look, do a Google search on caste studies experts and you will find a host of them. In spite of severe neglect of Ambedkar over many decades, there are now several Ambedkar studies centers across the country. All of them pursue Dalit/caste issues in addition to all other visions of the great man. Go to them and seek the answers. In Delhi, where you are located, I can name at least a dozen experts on caste issues, my friend Surinder Jodhka in JNU, for instance. EPW has been publishing articles for aeons for those who really want to read them. I mentioned in my previous mail that even Wiki has some data available now.
I would seriously work on providing links for commentaries and data had I not been convinced that most of us are actually pathologically prejudiced and happily ignorant of this state of mind we possess.
BTW, Uma is right in her arguments in a macro sense. But there is really no contradiction that is two-layered. Certainly, the race is not such a context, the gender is not such a context. Yes, the complexity of the caste layers in South Asia is of a high order, and all that Uma said is correct. But all that only means is that we need to tune the reservations even finer and ensure that the provision is implemented fully (which was not done until the mid-nineties).
And as for the eradication, it is happening and it will be done not by us debating reservations, but by Dalits forcing us to accept the change. The sooner we realise this, the better.
3. Vijaya's comment-
My comment:
Vijaya's note reminded me how as a young man once I wrote a bunch of postcards (never posted after a couple of friends looking at it ridiculed me) asking friends to commit to a intercaste marriage, adoption of an orphan, etc.
On a more serious note, caste identity is one thing - and inequality based on the identity is another. It is interesting how we mix these two things - why, I wonder.
As concerned citizens, we put serious efforts in countering many social ills, but reservation is something we accept only because laws force us to do so. Let me give an example. I work in an institution where they do not have reservation. There is a lot of emphasis on human values. All students have to take 'human values' courses, which are basically discussions between a couple of elders (teachers/mentors) and a group of students. Responding to sceptics questioning how this may considered a humanities course, a formal syllabus was designed, assignments are given regularly, all kinds of sophisticated material is used as resources, etc. There are Jeevan Vidya shivirs that every student has to go through. Most young students hate the whole thing, but a large amount of manpower and other efforts are used for this. The reason is an awareness that there is a crisis of values and a commitment to a certain perspective on human values.
When it comes to reservation based on caste or religious identities, the clever argument against it is that dont you see what happens to these poor kids in IITs, they have to live with everyone looking down upon them, there are suicides, etc. There is no question of using resources similar to that used in the 'human values' project to address the vulnerability of potential underprivileged entrants. Not a surprise, we are largely a upper caste Hindu majority institution. Seen this way, privatisation in education is partly an agenda of the upper castes to counter reservation.
Identity and marriage are not the issues - it is discrimination that reservation aims to counter. TN is an example where reservation has worked. That there are complications is true, but it has served the purpose and today even in the general category, a large number of OBC and SC/ST candidates (who are not using the reservation provision) are performing as good as forward caste candidates. Prof Ashok Jhunjhunwala of IIT-M talked to us on this a couple of years back.
Other than the laws, what we need is a firm response of rejection to discriminatory casteist and communal mores. And we do not usually have this - far from it. Going around campaigning as a teacher activist in Panjab University a decade ago, I have heard openly derogatory remarks against SC teachers in broad daylight in the middle of public streets. We need laws to prosecute individuals who exhibit such arrogance on caste, communal and gender lines, but we also need the conviction and courage to develop a culture that rejects it. I am not sure we 'liberals' possess such conviction and courage - if anything, my conviction is that we are indifferent to it in practice. I have the suspicion that not all of the 'identity' discourse is really innocent and devoid of parochial motivations. The lack of faith in the apparently less cultivated coming from the underprivileged is all around us - all we need to see is the extent of their representation in the bodies that we belong to (as pointed out by Dreze in the article that Anjali posted and many such articles keep appearing). It is a pathology that needs to be addressed head on and reservation is one such approach.
1. Over the years, I have always found it amusing and at the same time agonising how we non-Dalits discuss the issue of reservation.
First, it is always as if we have a choice in the matter. In some ways, it is justified because we keep on finding ways to counter reservation (by greater privatisation in education sector, for instance). But the fact is that the issue is not something that we can decide. I am not so sure about the OBC, but the Dalit context is and will be determined by Dalits. We happen to control the apparent discourse on it - for now. We were able to keep reservations effectively non-operative (except in states like TN) until about fifteen years ago when the courts started intervening in the matter.
Second, in spite of enough data available (now even on Wiki) on how reservation has changed the percentages of Dalits (and OBCs) in different category of professions (in Govt. jobs - albeit at a slow rate), we keep on wondering if reservation has helped at all. Enlightened commentaries do not indulge in the more widely prevalent 'in my uncle's office that fellow owning so many houses in the city is taking advantage of reservation' kind of dialogue, but we carry doubts in the deepest corners of our minds. This in spite of the new provisions to weed out the creamy layer.
And the issue of the poor among the forward caste - Many of them are willing to take up menial jobs far away from their native place, but are they willing to take up the same jobs as what Dalits do in their own villages - NO and that is why reservation for poor among the forward caste is less justified than for Dalits. Nonetheless, there should be reservation for them.
This is not to undermine the serious issues that we should worry about - the gender issues, the extremely neglected groups like nomadic communities, etc.
Finally because of the essentially feudal nature of our society, we remain casteist by default with unwritten reservation for forward castes (taking care of our kin and friends is a mandatory value that we learn from childhood and practice all our lives). Anyone with an open mind can see the effectively large scale reservation for forward castes that is operative in our institutions.
It is useful to compare the situation with African Americans in USA. No average white believes that the average black may be equal to them - there is no quota and yet there is a wide acceptance of the idea that the world has to change. We are so deeply feudal that in spite of quotas and constant talk about the issue, we have kept ourselves an exclusive structure. As a friend used to say - there is one phrase that describes us - khandani badtameezi.
2. comment by Anshumala:
Reservation and the overlap of caste and class is an extremely
complex issue for Indian society, requiring very rigorous analysis. i
wonder if this has been done in terms of a larger theory of caste by
sociologists. Can anyone throw light on such work?
Uma Chakravorty, in a lecture on the matter, gave a
very deep insight, which struck me as very perceptive. The question to
her was- 'All other social inequalities across the world have been
seriously challenged by the oppressed and even been countered to a
considerable extent. Why is caste inequality so persistent?'
She said- 'The caste hierarchy is a multi-layered
hierarchy and has been designed in such a way that every single layer is
below some layers, and above some others (other than the lowest of the
low, the untouchables). Since every layer derives some power over those
below it, they are loathe to challenge it. It is easier for a
two-layered system to be challenged (like gender, like
colored/non-colored) by the disadvantaged. The caste hierarchy can only
be seriously questioned by the lowest layer, but they have never been
able to gather social strength enough to topple the system. (Of course,
Mayawati, using the game of upper castes herself, coming to power is a
significant social/historical event, but will it actually challenge the
caste hierarchy? Let sociologists and historians comment
My response: If any one is seriously interested in the sociology of caste issues, is this the way to pursue it? Look, do a Google search on caste studies experts and you will find a host of them. In spite of severe neglect of Ambedkar over many decades, there are now several Ambedkar studies centers across the country. All of them pursue Dalit/caste issues in addition to all other visions of the great man. Go to them and seek the answers. In Delhi, where you are located, I can name at least a dozen experts on caste issues, my friend Surinder Jodhka in JNU, for instance. EPW has been publishing articles for aeons for those who really want to read them. I mentioned in my previous mail that even Wiki has some data available now.
I would seriously work on providing links for commentaries and data had I not been convinced that most of us are actually pathologically prejudiced and happily ignorant of this state of mind we possess.
BTW, Uma is right in her arguments in a macro sense. But there is really no contradiction that is two-layered. Certainly, the race is not such a context, the gender is not such a context. Yes, the complexity of the caste layers in South Asia is of a high order, and all that Uma said is correct. But all that only means is that we need to tune the reservations even finer and ensure that the provision is implemented fully (which was not done until the mid-nineties).
And as for the eradication, it is happening and it will be done not by us debating reservations, but by Dalits forcing us to accept the change. The sooner we realise this, the better.
3. Vijaya's comment-
When I was a young and still in college, I remember telling my
father that there was one surefire way to destroy the caste system in
just one generation. All that was required was for the government to
enact a law that would ban same-caste marriages. You could marry any one
you wanted provided your partner was not of the same caste. He just
laughed at my naivety.
I am still not sure that anything less crazy or less drastic has a chance of succeding.
Subbu's comment:
i would like to relate an experience with resource teachers in
Hyderabad. these were among the best teachers from schools and DIETs
called for a social science book writing workshop.
As a part of a discussion i threw a question on caste - it was a
somewhat ambiguously worded question, so that it was not easy to judge
my opinion on the matter.
I was shocked to find that almost
all participants thought that caste was a good thing - it gave
protection to people, gave them support in need, gave them culture and
tradition, and if you marry outside caste you are likely to suffer as
you wont understand the culture and traditions of the spouse, etc etc.
So caste was seen by them as a community and a cultural vehicle. When i
questioned them about possible problems in the caste system, they agreed
that this idea of high and low was not good - we should treat all as
equals.
I was too shocked to take in the full meaning of
this grand and innocent defence of caste system having all along treated
it as a bad word.
Actually, we seldom
understand the working of caste in these terms - as a way of integrating
diverse communities within a heirarchical framework while allowing them
a degree of social and cultural autonomy. Marriage is a part of this
system and reinforces it.
the question of integration today is more complex.
If we want to further integrate all these diverse communities by
dissolving their individual identities what are we integrating them
into. It turns out to be essentially an upper caste/class elite
cosmopolitan culture which takes the garb of democracy and equality. To
what extent will the future culture be inclusive and give space for the
diversity will determine the outcome and not magic solutions.
A second issue is social protection. Our social
security systems and civic administrations are so weak and police
protection so partial that people resort to caste community protection
in times of need. the need for this has actually increased as
traditional livelihoods have been eroded and people have entered
unstable markets with little skill back up.
Surprisingly this seems true not just of 'socially
backward' communities but also very forward communities like Brahmins,
Thakurs, Banias and such like.
I dont really
understand how reservation and other such mechanism work in this
context. They may certainly ensure a more physically inclusive
atmosphere in the educational institutions and administration. By
physical i mean they accomodate people from diverse communities.
However, i dont see a cultural inclusiveness and in fact a cultural
cleansing eliminating subaltern caste cultures. To some extent we can
hold the example of Tamilnadu as scale - the one state which
successfully challenged the hegemony of the Brahmins (who fortunately
were not supported by an equivalent of Thakurs in the south). The
nearest we have to a more inclusive culture and it is rich in problems.
Vijaya's note reminded me how as a young man once I wrote a bunch of postcards (never posted after a couple of friends looking at it ridiculed me) asking friends to commit to a intercaste marriage, adoption of an orphan, etc.
On a more serious note, caste identity is one thing - and inequality based on the identity is another. It is interesting how we mix these two things - why, I wonder.
As concerned citizens, we put serious efforts in countering many social ills, but reservation is something we accept only because laws force us to do so. Let me give an example. I work in an institution where they do not have reservation. There is a lot of emphasis on human values. All students have to take 'human values' courses, which are basically discussions between a couple of elders (teachers/mentors) and a group of students. Responding to sceptics questioning how this may considered a humanities course, a formal syllabus was designed, assignments are given regularly, all kinds of sophisticated material is used as resources, etc. There are Jeevan Vidya shivirs that every student has to go through. Most young students hate the whole thing, but a large amount of manpower and other efforts are used for this. The reason is an awareness that there is a crisis of values and a commitment to a certain perspective on human values.
When it comes to reservation based on caste or religious identities, the clever argument against it is that dont you see what happens to these poor kids in IITs, they have to live with everyone looking down upon them, there are suicides, etc. There is no question of using resources similar to that used in the 'human values' project to address the vulnerability of potential underprivileged entrants. Not a surprise, we are largely a upper caste Hindu majority institution. Seen this way, privatisation in education is partly an agenda of the upper castes to counter reservation.
Identity and marriage are not the issues - it is discrimination that reservation aims to counter. TN is an example where reservation has worked. That there are complications is true, but it has served the purpose and today even in the general category, a large number of OBC and SC/ST candidates (who are not using the reservation provision) are performing as good as forward caste candidates. Prof Ashok Jhunjhunwala of IIT-M talked to us on this a couple of years back.
Other than the laws, what we need is a firm response of rejection to discriminatory casteist and communal mores. And we do not usually have this - far from it. Going around campaigning as a teacher activist in Panjab University a decade ago, I have heard openly derogatory remarks against SC teachers in broad daylight in the middle of public streets. We need laws to prosecute individuals who exhibit such arrogance on caste, communal and gender lines, but we also need the conviction and courage to develop a culture that rejects it. I am not sure we 'liberals' possess such conviction and courage - if anything, my conviction is that we are indifferent to it in practice. I have the suspicion that not all of the 'identity' discourse is really innocent and devoid of parochial motivations. The lack of faith in the apparently less cultivated coming from the underprivileged is all around us - all we need to see is the extent of their representation in the bodies that we belong to (as pointed out by Dreze in the article that Anjali posted and many such articles keep appearing). It is a pathology that needs to be addressed head on and reservation is one such approach.
